在貴論壇，能寫草書？

[Stephen Thomas]

作者: xiaoz 如果你认定“However, the use of traditional characters gives me more freedom of speech in "blood-drinking" forums. ”否则, you cannot enjoy more freedom of speech. 那种看法太简单了，允许写草书就是言论自由，不允许写草书就是言论不自由。这是对言论自由原则的歪曲。我绝不相信在你的 civilization 中，是这样解释言论自由原则的。

Traditional characters (正體字) certainly give me more freedom of speech in Mainlander forums.

Why? Think about it.

So few people use this form of writing that the filter software is not adapted to this.

Also, I figure that this is a clever propaganda move by the CCP.

If Taiwanese, Hongkongese, and Overseas Chinese have too much trouble posting in "harmonious" forums, this will raise their distaste for the regime in Peking to an even higher level.

[huohuli]

国学网guoxue.com有些不错的链接。口水仗很费精力，还是回归书斋，静心读书吧。意气之争终究无益，多吸取知识才不辜负光阴。不知什么时候才能够真正有资格和高手对话。可能我永远只能羡读书。

[Stephen Thomas]

作者: huohuli 国学网guoxue.com有些不错的链接。口水仗很费精力，还是回归书斋，静心读书吧。意气之争终究无益，多吸取知识才不辜负光阴。不知什么时候才能够真正有资格和高手对话。可能我永远只能羡读书。

Thanks for the tip. However, guoxue uses Discuz! .

Unless they have modified this lousy software, it is not possible to put idiots on one's ignore list or to get automatic notifications when people reply to threads that one is interested in.

However, the Buddhist forum previously mentioned seems to be quite interesting.

From the same administrator of Helzone:

CC~~

您真是認真啊。為了自己的觀點而去堅持論述，這是非常不錯的。 (狼狼已經看完您跟其他人的爭論哩。)

不過，也不用太在意各種人的想法，因為這就是文化啊，您有您的想法及作法，他人有他人的想法及看法還有做法，在虛空中，各種討論及意見都是可以被接受的，重點在【這是您的意志所決斷】，所以任何人在您的表達的意見及思考文字中，都可以知道您想要表達的事情，至於認不認同，在不在意，這些對您個人來說都是無損的，因為您還是您啊，如果覺得不好，自己就會去思考改變，如果覺得好，您也會堅持下去。

虛空跟其他論壇差異的比較大的狀況是【虛空是偏近佛門的治世理念】，所以虛空的論壇規則還有處理，都是採自覺自治(畢竟要有智慧才會想改變，不過要從錯誤中學習才會驚覺這也是一種機緣啊)，所以只有管理總章，其他都是版主及會員自己拿捏，畢竟【有容乃大，虛空無邊】，人類的歷史本來就是一篇篇的史詩，也是一篇篇的血腥史，各種文化都會交替產生，如同物種生滅之斷，所以虛空對於各方言論都是抱著尊重心態，因為能將自己的想法分享出來是一件很令人覺得欣喜的事情，這已經是天大的善緣，如果發表的想法不好，自然而然在與人溝通了解的過程中，就會逐一改變，同樣，如果想法好的，也會自然而然吸引同樣的人一起來共同學習研究。

再次歡迎您來訪，也很感謝您將狼狼的回復轉貼到其他論壇給別人閱讀。不過那是狼狼對您的真心讚嘆啊。現在很少人會如此書寫法，姑且不論這種書寫法是否會影響搜尋或者引發其他問題，對虛空來說，這也是一種書論的緣分啊。

http://www.helzone.com/vbb/showthrea...163#post289163

Since I am extremely ignorant of Buddhism, this will give me the opportunity to attain two goals: improve my linguistic abilities in Chinese and broaden my intellectual horizons.

And given the high level of freedom of speech in that forum, discussions should be more interesting than in Mainland Buddhist forums.

Cheers!

[xiaoz]

作者: Stephen Thomas Interesting perspective. If you wish to use a metaphor, I would prefer to state that I attempted to wear traditional Chinese clothing (華服) in 97renven. （79楼） Traditional characters (正體字) certainly give me more freedom of speech in Mainlander forums. Why? Think about it. So few people use this form of writing that the filter software is not adapted to this.（81楼）

从你回复的只言片语中可以看出，你的思想始终停留在个人感觉和偏好（personal feeling and preference）的层面。你努力把你的个人情感与中国传统文化和 freedom 穿凿附会在一起，至多引起人们的同情和怜悯。你对中国传统文化本质上没什么了解，中国人对语言的看法，你完全没有领会。建议你静下心来读一读《庄子外物》中的一段：“荃者所以在鱼，得鱼而忘荃；蹄者所以在兔，得兔而忘蹄；言者所以在意，得意而忘言。吾安得夫忘言之人而与之言哉。”中国古人认为，在哲学层面进行思维和讨论，语言都是多余的，何况语言文字的书写格式？

[Rossonero]

文言文对于外国友人来说可能大过艰难了 (虽然他自己很爱附庸风雅地谈论与古代有关的东西), 还是大俗话更能提醒他:
狗揽八泡屎, 样样添不清

[Stephen Thomas]

作者: Rossonero 文言文对于外国友人来说可能大过艰难了 ...

Incorrect. I certainly can't reply in this sophisticated manner, but I am quite capable of getting a rough idea of what is written in Classical Chinese.

In fact, I encourage you to write in this manner - this will improve my linguistic level in Mandarin...

---------- 帖子增加于 17:56 2010-03-09 ---------- 之前的帖子发布于 19:16 2010-03-08 ----------

作者: huohuli 会写草书和智识精英有什么必然的逻辑联系吗？软件可以随意将书写体改造成草书；隶书甚至甲骨文，你会和它做进一步的交流吗？

At the moment I only know a few hundred characters in "grass script".

However, after a few years of tormenting ignorant 糞糞 in Mainlander forums, this should improve...

---------- 帖子增加于 18:16 ---------- 之前的帖子发布于 17:56 ----------

作者: phoebusalter

Or to carry this thought a step further...

中學為體，西學為用。。。

[davidldq]

几天没看，这个帖子还真热闹呢。

没看洋兄的发言（他还在俺的黑名单上），但是从各位引用他的文字看，此兄的问题还是太看重自己了。

俺早就说过：你个小不勒子远远没有重要到需要河蟹、五毛关注的程度，你丫的用哪种语言都说不出值得过滤和封锁的东西。无论你竖写、横写，无论左书、右书，无论洋泾浜古文、半吊子正体，统统一样自由——除了几个被你的水仙情节惹恼的小虾米，谁在乎你是装XYZ的逼，还是自abc的恋？

相烦哪位书友替我告诉洋兄一声：他的话用哪种语言说都是自由的，没有人——尤其是没有官方人——在乎。要是他还不明白，请他读一读《笑忘录》第四章（这个哥们不是懂法文嘛），看看自己和那个法国半吊子文化人像不像。

[Stephen Thomas]

作者: huohuli 在一个以哲学为主的论坛里还是显示一下你的哲学功底好了，不必要求他们用古文来思考哲学问题。

I really need to learn Japanese. It would be interesting to see how well this island nation has combined its traditional culture with influences from the West.

我真的在想你是否每时每刻都在用古希腊，希伯来，印度，英语甚至汉语，阿拉伯语思考和交流每一个学术或生活问题？

No, but I try to write in as elegant English as possible. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the use of a certain amount of Classical Chinese in scholarly treatises a sign of refinement?

一个人的手写体不代表他的文字功底，更说明不了他的思维能力和学术水平。

Perhaps this is the case in Chinese forums. However, in the Western languages that I know, if a native speaker has inadequate grammar and spelling abilities in his mother tongue, one can usually assume that he does not have anything meaningful to say.

我们没有人憎恨一个论坛有人用草书发言，更不会憎恨我们深深热爱的传统文化和语言。

Given Teiler's veto, this question has become irrelevant.

一直很羡慕你能拥有精英的教育，通晓多国文字，随意驰骋于各大国家各大网站和诸多的精英进行你认为符合逻辑的智识辩论。只是在你追求和他国精英对话的同时，似乎并没有把他们视为同侪，而常常带有纳粹似的文化优越感。

I deliberately go to forums where I am one of the most ignorant members. I am not looking for my peers, but my superiors.

For example in Mejliss, I am quite lacking in knowledge about Islam and I am illiterate in Arabic.

In Hispanismo.org, I am faced with people who are much more versed in Hispanic history and culture than I am.

Here, in 97renven, I imagine that most people have a better training in philosophy than I do.

请原谅我的感情再一次不幸地战胜了我的理智。你对中国的文化真的很醉心吗？那你应该知道逻辑本来就是中国文化所不擅长的。

Yes. However, this is a forum specializing in Western philosophy. Thus, my expectations are higher...

一个虚心的学者的初衷应该是学习而非炫耀，更非贬低对手，不是吗？

I don't give a darn if my opponent is modest or not. If he can point out the weaknesses in my arguments and destroy me in an intellectual sense, I am delighted.

如果某个论坛的集体水平令你失望，那么你有没有想过自己应该要找高手过招呢？

Who says that I am disappointed by this forum?

似乎中文专业的论坛或者更为综合性的人文论坛应该更对你的胃口。

Unfortunately, 97renven is the best humanistic forum that I have been able to find in Chinese.

争鸣很自由尖锐的论坛应该有，可惜我没有可以推荐的网址，原因很简单，我根本还算不上诗歌读书人。

Actually, I have just rediscovered 海納百川. This forum has a Final Solution for FQ. When one puts such trolls on one's ignore list, as long as one is logged in, they disappear completely from the screen. Furthermore, if anyone replies to such a troll, their statements will not appear. On the other hand, if productive members write in other threads, one can read their messages.

I am quite impressed. This Chinese adaption of phpBB software is the most advanced that I have yet discovered in the internet. This means that I can create a virtual reality where I can completely ignore all people who engage in insults, pseudo-psychoanalysis, and other ad hominem attacks.

Plus, some of the most innovative thinkers in the Chinese internet (蘆笛, 馬悲鳴, 林思雲 and 趙無眠) are active in this forum...

---------- 帖子增加于 23:28 ---------- 之前的帖子发布于 18:38 ----------

作者: xiaoz 你对中国传统文化本质上没什么了解，中国人对语言的看法，你完全没有领会。建议你静下心来读一读《庄子外物》中的一段：“荃者所以在鱼，得鱼而忘荃；蹄者所以在兔，得兔而忘蹄；言者所以在意，得意而忘言。吾安得夫忘言之人而与之言哉。”中国古人认为，在哲学层面进行思维和讨论，语言都是多余的，何况语言文字的书写格式？

Is the following an accurate translation?

Fishing-stakes are employed to catch fish; but when the fish are got, the men forget the stakes. Snares are employed to catch hares, but when the hares are got, men forget the snares. Words are employed to convey ideas; but when the ideas are apprehended, men forget the words. Fain would I talk with such a man who has forgot the words!

中国古人认为，在哲学层面进行思维和讨论，语言都是多余的，何况语言文字的书写格式？

Hmm. Perhaps there is a logical fallacy in your statement.

Do you consider Zhuangzi to be the one and only representative of "中國古人"?

I hope not:

。。。擢亂六律，鑠絕竽瑟，塞瞽曠之耳，而天下始人含其聰矣；滅文章，散五采，膠離朱之目，而天下始人含其明矣；毀絕鉤繩而棄規矩，攦工倕之指，而天下始人有其巧矣。故曰：“大巧若拙。”削曾、史之行，鉗楊、墨之口，攘棄仁義，而天下之德始玄同矣。。。

---------- 帖子增加于 16:56 2010-03-11 ---------- 之前的帖子发布于 23:28 2010-03-10 ----------

作者: davidldq 。。。你丫的用哪种语言都说不出值得过滤和封锁的东西。。。

丫：指受役使的女孩子，亦稱“丫鬟”。

David,

I realize that you are trying to insult me. However, why call me a "slave girl"?

Best Wishes,

Stephen唐士明Thomas

P.S. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXsp9...eature=related

[伐木工兮]

作者: [FONT=Arial Do you consider Zhuangzi to be the one and only representative of "中國古人"?[/FONT]

这可真够外行的。所引庄子那几句简直就是咱民族精神和思维习惯的纲领旗帜和风向标。

至于那个“丫”字，基本上是因为唐先生过分地精英或把自己当作精英的缘故。

唐先生晓得多国语言，令我等羡慕不已。有那么多精力学那么多种语言逛那么多论坛，俗话说伤其五指不如断其一指，何不集中精力弄通一门学问呢？难道唐先生的目标是集世界语于一身和全球人民进行无微不至的交流？吼吼，其志大哉！

[xiaoz]

作者: Stephen Thomas Hmm. Perhaps there is a logical fallacy in your statement. Do you consider Zhuangzi to be the one and only representative of "中國古人"? I hope not:

你问：“Do you consider Zhuangzi to be the one and only representative of ‘中國古人’?”
你答：“I hope not.”

通过你的自问自答，可知你需要加强基础知识的学习。不要说庄子，任何一个人都不可能代表全体中国古人。你在前面帖子里说 my country，按照你的逻辑，你不能说 my country. 因为你出生的国家不属于你。你不能代表那个国家。再举个极端的例子，二战结束后，很多战犯是以反人类的罪名被审判的。按照你的逻辑这是不可能的。因为再大的罪恶也不可能使全人类的每一成员成为受害者。由此推论，你不能说，你会写字，因为你并不会写世界上所有的字。你也不能说，你懂英文，因为你并不懂所有的英文单词。

你得想办法让自己看问题深刻一点，I hope.

[Stephen Thomas]

作者: 伐木工兮 这可真够外行的。所引庄子那几句简直就是咱民族精神和思维习惯的纲领旗帜和风向标。

Fortunately, 97renven has state of the art software. Thus, this slave girl can put those who are simple of spirit on her temporary ignore list. A sort of prewarning system - so that I do waste too much time trying to puzzle out the "surrealistic" meaning of their posts...

至于那个“丫”字，基本上是因为唐先生过分地精英或把自己当作精英的缘故。

Or that certain people make a fetish out of my having learned a number of foreign languages. This rote memorization reveals nothing about my intelligence, except that I am probably intellectually retarded for my age.

唐先生晓得多国语言，令我等羡慕不已。有那么多精力学那么多种语言逛那么多论坛，俗话说伤其五指不如断其一指，何不集中精力弄通一门学问呢？难道唐先生的目标是集世界语于一身和全球人民进行无微不至的交流？吼吼，其志大哉！

I have a basic knowledge of three of the great world civilizations: Western, Chinese and (Sunni) Islamic. What I need to find is a good forum relating to India. There are a number of these in English, but since I try to kill two birds with one stone...

---------- 帖子增加于 21:00 ---------- 之前的帖子发布于 17:58 ----------

作者: minos_ch 所以，您的要求实在是太沉重而崇高了，但是脱离了更多人内在的灵魂需要，此外，同样是西方人告诉过中国人的，任何事物、观念都有边界、限度，何况一个论坛而已，又不是上帝的圣坛，何能化育寰宇万般？

Actually, it is irrelevant whether I am yellow, white, brown, black or green.

My race or nationality is not important.

Please concentrate on my arguments, not my personality.

Please be aware that I have no objection if you write in simplified Chinese.

Or in traditional Chinese. Or in "grass script". Or even in oracle bone script.

However, please also realize that I generally provide a phonetic transcription of texts that I write in "grass script".

This is for the illiterates.

---------- 帖子增加于 21:14 ---------- 之前的帖子发布于 21:00 ----------

作者: 骑士 以前读过几份翻译前贤朱生豪先生的情书，里面用到类似的注音符号

For those of you who are too westernized (or lazy) to learn the Chinese transcription system, the following tool may be useful: http://chinese.dsturgeon.net/pinyin....uyin&to=pinyin .

P.S. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWj_kCvOgPw